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Welcome to Light’s Blog – a blog about toxic and non-toxic people.
I’m Light, owner of Light’s House, author of Narcissists Exposed, and moderation team member of Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.
Join me as we explore subjects of interest to those who are overcoming the effects of exposure to all types of toxic people.
Here are a few of the subjects we’ll address:
* Keeping Toxic People From Ruining Your Life at Home, School and Work
* Transcending Family Dysfunction and Toxic Parenting
* Personality Disorders and the Psychology of Healthy and Unhealthy Relationships
* Educational and Healing Resources for People Evolving out of Emotional Abuse
* Skills, Tools and Tips for:
……………………………………* Standing up for Yourself
……………………………………* Avoiding Negative Relationships
……………………………………* Fulfilling Your Right and True Potential
The goal of Light’s Blog is to support you in your efforts to live a positive and functional life despite the difficulties and negativity you have been exposed to. I hope you enjoy your visits and find them helpful.
Hello.
Thank you for your clear, enlightening and pragmatic essays. I found your site researching control and manipulation. I’m an older man and I had done this already a number of times, when it seemed to me that my parents were demanding too much of me and giving nothing in return. After my father’s death, four years ago, I tried to establish a “normal” relationship with my mother and sister, my only remaining close family, since I thought (had been led to think, I realize now) that my father was the bad guy. It’s been worse than when he was still alive and I was forced to consider the possibility that my mother was the head manipulator in this sorry mess, a painful admission..
It’s been so bad for almost one year now that I came to see no other way out than severing all contact with my mother and sister.
The guilt was huge and led me to your blog. Though I had read similar essays a number of times in the past (each time the pain of my relationship with my parents became unbearable), I had never been able to accept that they truly applied to the situation I was in. But they did and they do.
So thank you again.
D.L.
Hi Daniel, and thank you. I’m very glad you’ve put your finger on what’s been wrong. I know it can be a long road trying to solve the puzzle, and it’s great to hear someone’s broken through the fog as you have. It can be hard severing ties, but it can also be a huge relief. Lots of personal gains await you, I can attest to that! Sounds like your father might have been getting scapegoated. How different things begin to look once you realize about the disorders behind the actions.
I wish you the best, and know you’re not alone in having to cut ties. There are a lot of us in that boat, rowing for something better.
It’s New Years Eve, 2012 is approaching and I find myself NC with my abusive family…I came accross your webpage last year but the lessons and information was too “advanced” for me to grasp…as the saying goes the teacher will appear when the student is ready. Thank you for posting all this information in ONE place so that all of us children of abusive, toxic parents can find it and get courage. I wish you all the best for the new year and for all years to come.
Thanks, tasha — sounds like you’re moving on toward better! That’s nice to hear, and I’m so glad you’ve found the site helpful!
Thank you so much for your blog. It has brought me so much healing. You hit the nail on the head on so many of your posts. Thank you for your well worded, and clear depiction of the things that are not clear, through smoke and mirrors.
Thanks, I’m glad you like it, and I appreciate the compliments!
Reading Daniel’s comment like so many others, seem to have identical reference to my life. After my father’s death, five years ago, I tried to establish a “normal” relationship with my mother since I thought (had been led to think, I realize now) that my father was the bad guy. It’s been worse than when he was still alive and I was forced to understand that my mother was the head manipulator. Unbelievable how the same words apply to someone else’s life.
After a long and tedious divorce from the carbon copy narcisstic version of my mother, I finally have my freedom. I have read the books, read the articles, been on the websites and today have minimal contact with her. I have one brother who I am close with and we both see her in the same light but he chose to live on the other side of the world and I blame her for this. Another brother lives in the same country as I but a few hours away and he is the “Golden Child”. My relationship with him is ofcourse strained. I the daughter, live round the corner from her.
The guilt is huge. My children have started to have minimal contact with her too as they don’t want to live with the bigger guilt when she has gone (she is elderly now but mentally and physically like a woman 20 years younger).
I am glad I have just discovered your blog and I do hope it will help me in minimizing the guilt.
Oh, yes, being an ACON is something that puts you in one of those clubs you never wanted to join or realized you were in! These narcissistic parents are all so eye-poppingly similar…“Things Narcissists Say” was created with information from adult children of narcissists, and how many of them said, “Oh, YOU were told that, TOO?? I thought I was the only one!!!”
Hang in there — the guilt generally works its way out after causing a period of grief. With the exception of any dependent children, you have a right to limit or discontinue any relationship you do not want.
Thank you so much for your blog and your site. I have been dealing with a self absorbed, histrionic parent (and enabler) for so long. I have never been truly believed, and for most of my life I thought the problem was me.
This is the first site I have found with all the information I needed. Reading your articles and essays is just like reading my own story. It’s such a relief to know what the problem is and to hear someone who knows my perspective,
Thank you
So glad to hear it’s helped, Ami, and you’re absolutely right — the problem hasn’t been you! Nice to know you’ve realized what’s really been going on all this time!
After much reading, it feels like you were there watching my life the whole time! I feel quite sad but quite vindicated at the same time. My confusion is slowly lifting and it is due to what I have read here. Thanks so much for your insite.
A lot of people do feel like I’ve been a fly on their wall over the years! That’s great about the confusion fading out. That’s a really big shift, and leads to a ton of processing. Not always super-easy, but there are big benefits. Glad to help!
Thank you so much for your insights and invaluable information….I have had such a devastating experience with a psychopath and can now recognize how toxic my family are too..
Thanks — glad to help, and nice to hear you’re finding the kind of information you need. Come by anytime. :-)
finally found the blog i have been looking for i value your opinion and i feel so in touch with the topics i really do need the help you have to offer
Thanks, Kym — glad you’ve found it helpful!
Thanks for your very informative post. I can certainly see my ex-husband on every page. I’ll be back. Keep up the good work.
Wow — if you’re seeing him on every page, I’m sure glad he’s your EX-husband. ;-)
Thanks for stopping by — I appreciate the kind words!
I am feeling really hurt and angry tonight and losing faith…as i do every time i see my parents. It is like a toxic flashback just talking to thee for a few minutes…WTF? i am 52 year old man why cant I get past this?
I’m going to take a wild stab at it and say that no normal-ranging person ever really can truly accept toxicity. If your parents are doing hurtful and crazy-making things, the normal, healthy reaction IS hurt and anger. Only people who are stuck in/part of the mess can accept insanity without feeling like a battered dishrag after contact. (They often do things to cover up the feelings, compensate unhealthily, etc., instead of feeling and addressing).
Dysfunctional parents teach their kids that it’s a virtue to stick by them no matter what, and to forever tolerate the unbearable things they do and the crazy situations they create, because the parents can’t (or won’t) change, and they don’t want to look at their own behavior or have their kids changing any of the dynamics that THEY prefer. They create a lot of problems for their children. If you haven’t gotten yourself some GOOD therapy, that would be my biggest recommendation. There can be a lot of garbage to work through.
But it sounds like you’ve moved on to some degree, and your parents just can’t play at your level. If that’s the case, you HAVE gotten past it. THEY’RE the ones who can’t.
I have almost always gotten along with my parents until recently when my brother died, at which time they found out they were not the wonderful parents they thought they were. My brother left me everything in his will even though my parents (mother) took him to the hospitals and doctors regularly and paid for the privilege. My parents were angry and took steps that if I had chosen I could have taken them to court over and tremendously hurt me.
I have offered them a peace offering of visiting a 3rd party(preferrably a psychologist) to settle things. They don’t want a 3rd party involved and would like to settle it between us, which I assume means me giving in to them again. I get knots in my stomach thinking about talking to them and find it very difficult even to answer my phone when they call.
My husband is very supportive and encourages me to stick to my guns, it feels like the right thing to do. Everything I read here says that I’m doing the right thing but I doubt myself and it isn’t my conditioned response to my parents.
I will say that my life is less chaotic and I feel stronger as an individual but I assume it will take more time to get past the hurtfulness of their actions. Thank you for listening.
Hi Lisa
You know, this is one of those situations where a lawyer could really help, by explaining various legal options and rights to you. Many of them offer free consultations and are very generous with suggestions, tips and pointers. You may want to consider that. It doesn’t mean you’d have to take legal action — you could just get some advice about whether there were any helpful legal options. Often, you’d be really surprised how many there are!
It would do a lot for those knots in the stomach.
And if you needed a letter or something, it would be all taken care of — you wouldn’t even have to contact them personally.
Just a thought, but highly recommended, even on a tight budget.
The problem with being to nice : I fit the bill but more out of necessity as a single mom of 4 with no close family around and haveing a slightly dysfunctional family to boot. My question – is it possible that a person that is too nice can end up with Narcissitic children. I am sincere in asking as I think that this is what has happened with 3 of my 4 who are all adults now. These children were all happy as young children and with a few exeptions great teenagers. I feel blessed to have been their mom. I raised them to accept others as they are regardless of race or religion, and to distance themselves from those that are not good for them ie: those that hurt them emotionally or phsyically. As I read your blogs the focus seems to be always on the parents, and even thoguh I see some traits that can be attributed to my own parents I am curious about the adult children.
Life was a struggle but not unmanageable when raising the kids because I worked 2 sometimes 3 jobs at a time and went to college at night when they were all under the age of 6. But we did a lot together, camping, traveling, snow sports, rock climbing, swimming the list goes on. I often took in some of their friends if their home situations were difficult. but bottom line is we were a close family. So i don’t know what went wrong.
I live alone now because they are all on their own, I have managed in the last 6 years to make new friends and cut down to 1 job and spend weekends traveling with friends. so my life is different now. But I have never refused to help them out and never ever said no if I could manage something.
My youngest daughter now 26 and married has been angry at me for the past 8 months. Could it truly be that I am now the Narcisitic Bitch my daughter refers to me as, or a Sociopath (her other name for me).I am accused of playing a martyr, but I have never considered anything I have done as being a burden) I have been told that I have never been a good mom. That I need to change how I am or never see her or my granddaughter. My 27 yr old son has also told me I was never there for him and that his life is just fine without me in it now.( I don’t get to see him or my grandson)
There’s no proof that parental behavior is what causes NPD (assuming they did have it). There is one study suggesting there’s a strong hereditary component to NPD. (Narcissists also project a lot, so if you DID have narcissistic children, they’d be more than happy to call YOU the nasty narcissist.)
Those are some awfully strong charges your kids have made against you, and your version of their experiences sounds very different from their version. That’s an indication of a big problem, and I’d want to get to the bottom of that asap.
If I were in your shoes, I would get myself a psychologist who is well-versed in personality disorders and have quite a few good long chats about the fact that my children’s versions of life with me and my version of it were so vastly different. That’s a huge red flag. I know psychologists are not cheap, but if you find one who has good skills, you’ll be amazed at just how quickly a good one can cut through this stuff and make it crystal clear for you.
There’s information about how to find the right therapist here: http://lightshouse.org/lights-blog/how-to-find-the-right-therapist#axzz1xaokUqTN
And tools for finding a therapist here: http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/
Don’t get one who isn’t highly experienced with personality disorders. I have heard every disaster story there is — not pretty.
While reading through your post, I realized it could have been written by me. I too was a single parent, but I had one daughter – an only child. Fortunately, I was able to support her in a nice style. But, I had to work evenings to do it. However, like you, whenever I had any time off (weekends, vacations), it was all about her.
Education was most important to me. She had piano lessons, flute lessons, dance lessons, singing lessons and on and on. I would go over her school papers, homework, knew every teacher, got involved in school programs, and put her through a very expense college; it was the only one she agreed to attend. It left me in a much weakened financial situation. But, I pulled through on 2 chicken breasts and a head of lettuce a week throughout her 4 years of college.
When she went to school, I saw an abrupt change in her. Actually, she was doing upsetting things before that, but I tried to sum them up to being a teenager. At college, she would lie, cheat and steal from her roommates until they moved out. One poor girl had to have her parent stay in the dorm room if she had to go out of town so she could retain her personal property. My daughter claimed complete innocence and set herself up as the victim. Just before graduating, she turned her back on her mentor, who bought into her bull for 4 years. She said that since she was ready to move on, she had no use for the teacher anymore. The teacher was crushed, and it had no effect on my daughter. As a matter of fact, she gloated.
Then it became my turn. She decided to go to graduate school and expected it to be on my dime. I told her I couldn’t do that. She demanded half of my house and half of anything I had left from savings to pay for it! I did help her set up her apartment with furniture I had and she obtained a good job to pay for school. I was proud of her until she came home for Christmas. I was sick with the flu, but still managed to pull off a wonderful Christmas for her. I did have to go to bed the next day and she left to go back to her own apartment in Boston. A few weeks later, I looked for my favorite necklace to wear. It was gone. I went for my favorite jacket. It too was gone. Everything that my daughter knew was my favorite thing was gone- My favorite piece of glass, a favorite belt, favorite CD and on and on. When I confronted her, over the phone, the tears and wailing began saying that she didn’t do anything and how hurt she was that I would accuse her. Well, they didn’t sprout legs and walk off on their own.
My daughter knew what I went through with my family of origin. I was, and still am the scapegoat of a narcissistic mother and the family, even though I went NO CONTACT over 10 years ago. Here’s where it gets real evil: She met some 40 year old guy, never married, never in a long term relationship, but the family had money. Without speaking to him, she dumped the guy she was going to marry, who was in the midst of transferring his job to the city she lived in and set a date to be married. She just didn’t answer his calls or the door. The next thing I know, after sifting through her lies, she’s living with this man, claiming that everything my mother did to me, in each and every situation, I did to her- Exactly…word for word, situation by situation. She claimed to this man, and his elderly parents, that she had to go No Contact with me to save herself. She called me “Crap as a mother”, an “F***** mother” and worse. In short, my daughter stole who and what I was, and transferred it to herself to gain the sympathy and financial benefits of this “new” family. She began her own Smear Campaign against me knowing I was dealing with the never-ending narcissist campaign from my own family.
Like everyone she came in contact with, after they served their purpose, she slandered them and walked away …including her mother.
Once I became familiar with the real pathology and symptoms of the narcissist, I began to realize that there were many in my family – on my mother’s side. Aunts, cousins, my brother and their children all show the symptoms. Not pretty; although butter would melt in their mouths. Being sandwiched between a narcissist mother, brother and enabling father, AND a narcissistic daughter is heartbreaking. I am totally convinced that the disorder is hereditary. I was aware of the effects and symptoms of narcissism and raised my daughter to be anything but! She had discipline (which she got back at me for afterwards), was shown charity to others (which she resented), was shown a work ethic (and she stole from others and me) and went to church every Sunday (which she denied to the new family and joined their church). She was always very jealous of others despite my attempts to defuse it. I guess the only time she was honest was when she said to me, at 18 yr.s of age, “I’m tired of pretending to be what people think I am. I’m going to be who I am!” The reign of terror began! She has no friends, no family…only a new set of victims.
Hi Dianne — what you’ve described about your daughter aren’t NPD traits. They would fit AsPD. The following are the possible traits of AsPD. Assuming the right additional conditions, she would need only THREE of these traits:
1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
Narcissists desperately need to feel that people think they’re the loveliest and most wonderful people, and they don’t want people to think they make mistakes. They desperately need their egos stroked, and they want you to praise, flatter and admire everything they do, complimenting them and putting them on pedestals. When a narcissist lies, it’s most typically for ego-based reasons.
But people with AsPD (often called sociopaths) are con artists. They don’t care if you think they’re wonderful (unless they need you to think it temporarily so they can use you or steal from you). They enjoy manipulating people to get what they want, they have no conscience, and you’re just their next sucker is all. They have no morals, and they view you only as a way to get what they want. When a sociopath lies, it’s most typically to get their hands on your stuff or your money.
Regarding NPD running in families, one study has indicated a genetic component to NPD. But your daughter is most likely no mere narcissist, I’m afraid. More about sociopaths is here: http://www.lightshouse.org/all-about-sociopaths.html#
Light,
Thank you so much for the wake-up call! Is it possible for a narcissist to be a sociopath as well? Both my mother and my daughter want people to think they are the most lovely people on the planet. Behind closed doors, its a different story. However, they both lie, cheat and steal. Creating a false image to the outside is the most important. Is it that a narcissist creates the image for ego while the sociopath creates the image for criminal behavior?
I have read that sociopaths behavior can be genetic and is caused by chemical/ damage to the brain. Any evidence of that?
Some number of sociopaths do have narcissistic characteristics. (Then there’s psychopathy, which is yet a whole ‘nother pool of possibile issues that shrinks consider.)
That’s a pretty good way of nutshelling it. Lines can blur, but as clearly as a person can nail down the pure difference, I think you have. (The only thing I might add is that it may or may not be actual criminal behavior — it might just be taking advantage in any number of ways.)
They’ve found some biological components to AsPD, but so far, they have no actual proof of any significant genetic basis. A study of psychopathy (psychopathy is not the same disorder as AsPD, but it bears certain similarities) was conducted in 2005, and the conclusion suggests that there is something genetic happening with at least part of the picture with psychopaths.
They’re getting closer every day with AsPD. They now do know that AsPD involves differing brain chemistry — it’s just not proven to be genetically based (however likely that might be). It’s a fascinating field, and one that you can read forever about.
Thanks for the information. I have had a few experiences already some good, some not. All of this has been pretty recent ( last year or more). These were not the thoughts they had previous to that. Their reltionships with their significant others have even keep them from each other they (all 4 siblings) were very close before. I have asked often if they can tell me what it is that has changed but I am told I already know.
You may be right, I need to see someone. Thank you for the guides.
You’re very welcome. Best of luck with it all, and let me know if there’s anything else we might be able to help with.
Thank you VERY much for this very informative site! As other posts of stated I feel like you were a fly on the wall when I was growing up. It has been 10 years since I had my “aha” moment. The first glimmer that I had that something wasn’t right about my family was when a counselor told me that my mother didn’t know what boundries were. I have since learned that was just a symptom of what was going on. In addition to being narcissictic my mother also looked to me for her emotional suppor. Yes she was married and had two sisters and a brother, plus friends but I was the one who was supposed to be her friend, entertainment committee and take care of what ever else she needed.
My parents lost four babies after me, RH factor, so I grew up hearing I was what kept her going. I didn’t have a lot of friends, wasn’t allowed to participate in sports or other extra curricular activities associated with school. My dad was super strict and controlling and my mother was an expert at emotional blackmail and guilt trips.
What I am very thankful for is that God gave me the strength and wisdom to break the cycle and raise two wonderful kids that know what it’s like to have a healthy relationship with their mother. I also am remarried to a wonderful man who is very supportive of me while I work through all the garbage!!
Not the best childhood, by a long stretch. Sounds like there was a lot of parentification going on there with you as a kid. I was very glad to see the happy ending you’re currently in! You’re welcome, and hop over any time.
Yes there was a lot of parentification going on. I can remember when I was in grade school taking care of my mother when she was sick with the flu or something, and she wanted me to sit by the bed, hold her hand, rub her arm and say “poor sweet baby”. YIKES! There is way more that happened, I’m sure enough to fill a book, but a lot of the things that happened were embarrasing to talk about. She cannot understand why I don’t enjoy being around her. Doesn’t everyone enjoy being around a bottomless pit of need?
Currently I feel so much anger and resentment about what happened during most of my life. I have gone to an excellent counselor which helped me validate what I was feeling. I currently have low contact with her. I do not feel sorry for her nor do I feel responsible any more for “fixing” everything that is wrong in her life. As was mentioned in one of your articles she is an emotional vampire.
I am thankful you have given the ACON this site with all the good information and also a place to share with others who have similar experiences. Keep the light shining for the ACONs!
“…poor sweet baby”? bleccchhhh. That’s the reason I have this site, right there. I mean, who else could even imagine some of this rubbish we’ve all been through? Urrgghh. It’s a wonder we can walk upright.
I’ll absolutely do that — thank you so much. If you haven’t signed on for Light’s House Updates, put yourself in there — I haven’t used them yet, but this year, stuff will start rolling. Here’s the link:–> http://lightshouse.us2.list-manage1.com/subscribe?u=90cea00d3ed7031dc0eb10909&id=4861bccf83
Therese and Light, I very much relate to Therese’s childhood and understanding, my life has went very much like her’s. It is very gratifying to know that we can live through it and actually make a better life for the next generations.
The best part is understanding and actually using it as a blessing in your life.
I agree! Getting it turned around is the very best part, because there are hidden gifts if you’ve worked on everything, like valuing fairness more, deeper compassion (many ACONs are among the most compassionate people I have known) and being a strong voice against things like bullying.
ah i feel like i want to put a needle full of herion in my arm to make this pain go away not that im a iv drug abuser and never was but my mother is so damaging i dont care what she says to me but she says in front of my daughter that i dont care about her. i beleive im a ok mother yes i do work 20-30 hrs a week and have recently started to go out once a week after 6years of never going out for a night out. my mother doesn’t like the way i live my life now and says i don’t care bout my daughter because this aw im soooo soooo soooo sad my daughter has to hear her say these things as i am a single parent with no brothers or sisters and my mother is also on her own and we have no contact with my dad so all me and my daughter have in this world is my mam and she’s making my daughter insecure by saying these things if anyone has any comments or advice please give.
If you don’t like how she’s treating your daughter, you have a right to stop contact, if that’s possible. Not sure what your options are.
OMG, there were some heavy stuff here. I have wondered about AsPD and psychopaty. Some says it is the same thing, but I have always thought that it was some differencies and that psychopaty is even worse. But I don`t know. Also had some thougts about that psychopaty was something that one was born with, and maybe AsPD wasn`t.
I know that my mother and MiL have N, I also had thoughs about my husband and myself had N or Bipolar D. I realized that I`ve has sufferd from depression since childhood, and then you can become very selfcenterd in a very negative way, and selfish, also crimpled.
One thing i believe is that depression who has lasted for many years can make some changes in your brain and certainly if it started in childhood.
Are children of N parents more exposed for depression or some sorts of PD?
Right, AsPD and psychopathy aren’t really considered the same thing. Regarding depression, I know they have data about higher rates of depression and anxiety among those who have been abused, so it would stand to reason that most children of narcissists, given their likely abuse, would be in that higher-risk group. There’s also data to support your thinking about longstanding depression and its effects.
A number of PDs are showing some signs of having a genetic component, at least. See the list here: http://www.lightshouse.org/pds-and-biology.html
About 16 years ago, I made an effort to work things out with my Narcissistic and or Sociopathic “Father.” We had some time alone, which was unusual, as his wife (my step mother from hell) was out of the country for a couple weeks. I started by asking him, “Is there anything you would do differently if you could go back?” His reply, ” I would get a vasectomy.” Which essentially ended the discussions. I see this as a thinly veiled version of “You were an accident.” or ” I wish you had never been born” It was said with no emotion whatsoever.
Anger and the promise of revenge was the only thing that kept me alive through the abusive nightmare of my childhood. Mom is borderline, histrionic, or NPD. She is always complaining about physical ailments or fatigue and pretending to be helpless. (Even in her 20s) When I was a toddler, she scapegoated me, locked my in my room for the day, only to demand I was given a “reminder” (beatings) when Father came home from work after my Mom complained about how horrible I was, this is pre kindergarten! I would sometimes pretend to be asleep when he got home, which worked some of the time. It is my understanding through extended family he was hitting me while I was still in the crib. This only scratches the surface of physical, verbal, and emotional abuse I suffered. Neglect and abandonment too. I ended up in a group home after being declared “incorrigible” at age 16 by Mom and abusive Stepdad after I refused to go live with my real father. (which was a Godsend!)
I am now middle aged and the oldest of 4 children. 2 of us have seen our real father only once in the past 13 years. He moved away without telling anyone when or where. He disowned one of my brothers after the brother divorced the daughter of his 3rd wife/ our stepmother.
My mom promised to go to a therapy session with me 18 years ago to talke about all this, it had to be her therapist, then backed out a couple days prior claiming not to be strong enough.
One of my brothers I strongly suspect is Narcissistic and shows nothing but rage if I talk about the abuse I suffered. Called me “crazy”, said “If it didn’t happen to me, it didn’t happen to you.” ” I am not interested in that” It took me a real long time to realize this brother was probably NPD, for 40 years I tried to have a normal give and take honest relationship with him, to no avail. He always looked down on people without a college degree, and dismissed them as not worth talking to. (though I do have a degree, I disagree strongly with his opinion) After his recent divorce, he claimed to be an expert on women after reading a few studies. He and I ran into a female friend of mine and he blurted out “Let’s go dancing tonight!” right in the middle of our conversation. She refused & I was very embarrassed by his behavior. He claimed I didn’t know what I was doing in my conversation with her. He subsequently ended up with a sexual harassment charge against him from a church associate. His latest accusation behind my back is that I am jealous of him! I became the scapegoat for his new family as well. I am limiting contact there now, but regretful I tried for so long and wasted so much of my life.
And there was the golden child brother, encouraged to tattle on everyone and given lots of power over the rest, but he passed away 20 years ago. At least he said I was the best brother he “could have hoped for” before he passed away. When I went to comfort the Narcissistic brother right after his death, he pushed me about 12 feet across the room! Guess in his mind, I was responsible for that too!
I have a fairly normal relationship with the remaining brother, though he tends to marry control freaks. He has heard me out and acknowledges what happened to us. The NPD brother says the other brother “doesn’t even deserve to be in the family” For no reason! I am sure he says the same thing about me behind my back.
I decided that living my dreams was the best revenge in the end. What a great exercise to write some of this down here.
Thanks so much for the blog Light.
Whew — I’m glad you’re moving on to making yourself happy. I think that’s a really good plan!
I have escaped and chosen more recently to lose touch with a father with Histrionic Personality Disorder, and a mother who has continued to be an Avoidant Personality, inclusive of refusal to bond and to get to know me. A pretty much perfect match for each other there! If you have any curiosities, and still have research into the avoidant personality dont hesitate to ask.
Thanks for filling out the survey, Nicola. We really appreciate that!
Sad that so many years go by and we may have a period of grief because of that, thinking of all we have missed.
But life is now! Wish the best for your future William!
Hi,,
i’ve just realised that my sister’s longterm boyfriend (of 9 years) can be a very controlling person. They have very much of a parent-child type relationship I’m worried about her because she’s an extraordinarily kind and giving person and he doesn’t treat her right; always taking but not giving in return.
When he comes over for family events he’ll often try to stir up trouble with me or trying to be annoying (supposedly in jest) e.g. saying I’m stingy or a nerd etc.. i’ve heard this type of behaviour can be symptomatic of controlling or thrill seeking people? I’m a non-confrontational person and often don’t know how to respond to him.
I was wondering if you had advice/techniques for how i can respond to him or even to help my sister see past her love of him to some of his faults?
Hi Vic
Sorry to hear about that. I think the most important thing is to let your sister know, regularly and clearly, that you always love and support her. That way, if things are bad, she’ll feel safe going to you for advice or support. She may not be able to see what you see, and may even disagree with you about him if pressed, but if she knows you’re always in her corner, that will help.
Not that it makes it any easier to watch, and there’s not a whole lot you can do, I don’t think, about her own determinations. You can try just mentioning a couple things to her to let her know how you feel. But if much more is said than that, it can sometimes cause the person to shut down on you, which is really the opposite of what you want. If you do elect to say anything to her, you can convey that you aren’t so much against his behavior as you’re in favor of her happiness, and that may help ease her mind and keep communication open more than if you don’t.
As far as his joking that you’re stingy and a nerd, if he’s a very controlling person, he might possibly be using comments like that as an attempt to control your behaviors with shame. If so, then the words “stingy” and “nerd” are your clues — what things might you have done relating to withholding money or supposed nerdliness that could have caused him to feel you’re not easily controlled?
I imagine you’re likely to have displayed some behaviors that have left him feeling he does not have as much influence over you as he’d prefer. His jabs might well be his way of saying he can’t handle your low controllability, especially since you obviously care about your sister, and may encourage her not to be so easily controlled herself.
If you’re the non-confrontational type and just need to sort of let it roll off you, you can try self-deprecating replies, or simply smiling and making light of the comments and changing the subject, or just saying nothing at all. You can also opt for the significantly less-confrontational, “Was I stingy about something? I try not to be…” Having an always-blase (or acceptingly humorous) take on the barbs can be one way of keeping things afloat, because it’s a form of non-resistance.
If you feel the jabs are coming from his fear that you’re a threat because you don’t go along, then remembering that may make it much easier to cope with.
Hope that helps – it’s not an easy situation, for sure.
Thank you so much for creating and sharing this site! Much love and appreciation to you! xo
Thank you, Merrylyn, and you’re very welcome!
I came across your website a few months ago. As many have stated, I was overwhelmed with joy that I am NOT crazy! It has been insinuated my whole life that there is something wrong with me. Always the one to be used as the example of bad behavior or an embarrassing moment that occurred within the family. I was the “joke” of the family. It was all I knew… that I was difficult and no one would ever be able to put up with me. I should just feel fortunate to have such a fabulous and respectable family to make up for my patheticness. What was amazing to me though is that I had little to no physical contact with my family members in my adult life. If I had so many issues and they see me as so vulnerable why wouldn’t they want to be around me every now and then to see how my 4 children were doing while being raised by a mental case of a mother? The confusion over what the hell was wrong with me almost sent me over the edge for real. I came across this site and have went no contact with my mother, father, sister and brother. This obviously has not been a problem since they never really wanted much to do with me or my children anyway. Only when it was necessary for the “perfect picture”. Thanks for the awareness that this is an actual labled dysfunction. I thought I would have to be the first to write about the emotional abuse one can sustain by the very people that act like they love them the most – mom and dad. I have always been told its all in my head. Speaking of “truths” is the best way to get N family members to leave you alone.
Hi Sam – sounds like yet another case of the sane one being labeled the crazy one. As you say, if they’d really been concerned, they’d have done something more than just labeling you insane and acting like you were “lucky” not to be flat-out abandoned.
It’s nice to hear you’re doing what feels right to you, and that you’ve had such an awakening!
Hi Light, the worst part of the abuse is the denial & the deniability of all of my parents manipulation. Their worst crime was a) Not explaining to me as a child, “what manipulation is”, “how to understand when others are trying to manipulate me”, “how to avoid allowing myself to be manipulated”. B) Instead to decided to manipulate me. C) They left me disadvantaged in the world around me. They took away so much from me, to achieve so little for themselves. 4 years ago I started to unravel their two faced manipulation. In summary one tactic that they have used for a life time has been, My father would threaten aggression, insisting that he would crack up, unless I agreed to his unreasonable & irrational demands. My mother would insist that I should agree to his demands or she would “crack up”. I would oblige, they would offer me their seal of approval by “not cracking up”. For 46 years I believed that my mother was the victim of his aggression, I now believe that most of the aggression & threats were planned & choreographed between them with my mother as the director & producer of the drama and also playing the leading role as the victim and the hero at the same time. I have read through your website which has provided me with a sense of relief and great comfort to be able to dismantle the manipulation and particularly the deniability. I have taken time to complete my own analysis. Iam now almost ready and able to explain myself to a psychiatrist. Iam satisfied that I can articulate my understanding of the abuse without getting tied up in knots trying to explain all of the things that happen at the same time & explaining all of what my parents have kept secret from me. 4 years ao I stopped communication with them. They channeled all communication by text message through one sister’s. 18 months ago, I started to send her text messages explaining how I imagined & believed that all of their manipulation works. I confronted all of the manipulation, asking was their entire life together a lie? Etc. They continued to send the same “How are you ?” Messages, ignoring my blunt assessment of 46 years of abuse. 6 months ago, I sent this text to my sister “I have been able to forgive each of them, you can go to independent mediation to establish the basis for a logical rational conversation”. I have had no communication from them since that text message. This is a relief and a sense of victory against their abuse. My conundrum now is; do I confront them fully and explain my understanding of Narcissism. If I were to believe my mother’s narcissistic mantra, she will experience bad health trying to deny & after all “she is really the victim” and my father’s life time threats of aggression if anyone challenges his authority. Do I appreciate peace & quiet without their intrusion and leave them be or do I try to complete the deal by obliterating all of the facade of abuse and unravel it all out in front of them ? I will take time to decide for myself, I would be grateful for any comments. The saddest part about all of the Narcissistic Abuse is that my parents are pathetic cowards, their abuse achieved nothing, my generosity has never been enough, even offering to forgive hasn’t been enough. Not explaing to a child “How to avoid allowing themselves to be manipulated, only for the purposes of parents then being able to manipulate the same child” is pure evil and is worth explaining to every child in school. Thank you again for providing me with real relief and comfort. I appreciate how important your work is. I will take my time to reflect on my own progress and all of the parts of the solution, I look forward to sharing details of my successful survival after 46 years, in the dark, being manipulated, bullied & abused and my 4 year journey to Light’s House.org .
So typical of narcissists, sadly. I’m sorry to hear you went through all that. You ask:
If for some reason, you feel you just have to get it off your chest regardless of the fact that they’ll never accept it and will proceed to give you another retaliatory head-lashing for your troubles (or even worse) then it may be worth it to you, personally.
Narcissists typically respond to hearing they’re narcissistic with scorn, rage, indignant denial, shaming, invalidation and devaluing, vicious criticism, shunning, projection, ridicule, accusations, smear campaigns and martyrdom. If the need to have your say is greater than your distaste for such things (it is, for a few) you may want the option. But if you’re wanting to do it in the hopes that they’ll hear you, just be prepared — it’s not how they respond.
Sometimes people just have to try, though, to be 100% sure there’s no hope. It’s all good. (Except their reaction. Bring a full-face helmet and some good knee pads if you’re going to attempt it).
I don`t anyone that would be happy for accused to be a narsisst, in fact
most people I know would be raging!
But maybe that is me, it is said that people with avoidant personalities easily are drawn to people who are N. Not knowing I have Avidant PD, but have used many avoidant techniques, mostly when I was young, and se how it has effected my life, I may have ADHD, but maybe it is all about the enviroment I grew up in?
Sometimes it is also difficult to apart people who are hurt from p who are N, of reasons that some NPD`s have experienced to be treated unfair and experieced trauma in their childhood, even if it is not the fact with all persons with NPD.
(They are clever to get symphaty.)
That doesn`t change the danger with toxic people and most of all the situations for their kids and grandchildren. (let go that some grandkids are more preferred, just don`t show it so much grandma! )
Some seems to understand and even get angry on their behalf of others who are treated unfair and are abused !
Only the fact is that it is rather abstractly as long as it is not in their private atmosphere.
I don`t know if it is right, but to me the difference between N, sosiopaths and others , ( “normal people and other disorders) is one very importent thing: The lack of empathy and the fact that even if you believe they do, they don`t really love you, even if you are their child. Scary!!
Scary because they don`t want you let go.
I have done many stupid things, driven by dispair and hope for better and new things and to reach my goals. That leaded to some catastrofes, not only for me but also my kids and my family. Running, moving, my father had the same thing, and the childhood of mine was imprinted by that, it was destroying.
And made it legal to critize and judge me.
I recognise the same thing as readed here on this site, with mothers who are “victims”.
Though my father did some bad things,which maked me be on my M side, I was torned and should be spared for some of the facts.
My father also had some mental problems we then didn`t knew about, which increased through his life. ( ADHD, maybe and Bipolar or depressed, He commited suicide at 67 of age, and had developed som paranoid traist, I feel sorry for him)
It is very confusing and devastating for children growing up in their teens when the mothers tells a lot of all their misbehaving. They were in dead the victims in some partcually cases, but should they use their children to get supply? Women can be very unmature in that way. Hopefully not all are.
Both mine and my late husband mothers used or tried to do use, their children against the fathers and often succeded.
It was all about them , if you asked some questions they either punished you or lied. But it is not always easy to see through that. Some are smart!
They wanted to have the symphaty on their side, but when you se that one of them makes a hell for her husband when they grew old, you wonder which one is the predator.
When the job of healing is started which means after many destroyed years, (as the lost child, the supply, even the golden child are losing many years) and have reached mature ages, you still have some challenges.
The emptiness, and now is where the job starts and some more challenges become.
The Good News is that the truth also have a healing effect, but if you have a habbit of accusing yourself in a destructive way over many years, there is a lot to do. But it is not the dead end, even if it feels so.
Some gets bullied and you have all of my symphathy!
.
For some of us the problem has been neglect and contempt, from our homeenviroments, often continuing and following later in life from others, as if you asks for it..
When I tried to lift my wings or get some progresses I was never receiving too much encouraging, ecpecially from my mother, and may not be from my father. But he was more in the way that he wanted the good for you, just wasn`t able helping. The divorced by her willing.
My father was helpless, my mother selfindulgence in a matter that is very much alike N, though I am not sure she has The Disorder!
But she is smart, and i have been fooled more than once.
You get more restistance from people when you are young and have more chances and your whole life in front of you.. When mostly are behind and no longer as much are threatening their image of themselves, it is another case.
It is like when you are down and out, they like it, and “symphatize” and wants it to be that way. When you makes stepp in direction to make progress, it is another matter, and some gets a bit hostileor despicing.
The big challenge then is not to be bitter, but count all your blessings!
And there are some, when you count.
Some of us who started to isolate and avoid others, for me it started as a child, then I started to go out and make cool friends in not the most healthy enviromenst as a teenager, and after some hard life experiences just fell right back to isolate myself.
But you see, it is not at all “the dead end” even if you may received som of this, and have anxiety and are disheartened.
A few good friends is very importent. People with good hearts and who want you the best. It is not impossible to make because we, people who have got trough a lot, have much to give!
Just pick the right people and avoid the rest!
Hmm, yeah, that may not be a good sign…
Thanks Light, I have been enjoying the peace & quiet of no contact too much to want to go backwards. It’s reassuring to understand that extracting myself away from the abuse can be considered as a complete or final part of the abuse. I have sent about 100 texts to my sister bluntly articulating my understanding of the manipulation. The only responses appear to have been authored by my mother. 2 years ago I watched a wildlife documentary about a young Lion who had been rejected by its mother, I recognised the facial expressions & sounds from the mother. Before this I had no idea that my mother was the manipulator or no ideas that I had been rejected and then brought back again only to be rejected again like a yo- yo for 46 years. I have been through the equivelant of a grieving experience over the past four years. I have also been enjoying a spiritual experience believing that I have a far greater understanding and a greater strength than they have. Their words are only the words of an abuser. Thanks again for all of your efforts, your website is worthy of many awards. Narcissists will not be able to exist in an environment where everybody else would understand what a Narcissist is and how they would behave, You have helped me a lot, I will promote Lights house.org . Thanks
Thanks, I appreciate that very much! Glad to know it’s helped out.
Oh, to live in a world where everyone knew what a narcissist is…
Thank you Light, A world with each Narcissist easily identified and a culture with a provision to hold each Narcisist to account is desirable and maybe realistic and achievable. The desire for freedom of expression, plus the power & the strength of human nature, plus the current revolution in technology, plus the ongoing cultural evolution will make it easier to challenge Narcissists. For example, One billion people who are registered as users of Facebook, if 10% or 100 million have abusive parents, then it will probably become a platform for a revolution against abuses. Are there any estimates of the percentage of population who are Narcissists. Are there more Narcissists in any regions or cultures versus less in any other regions or cultures. Also are Narcissists aware of how bad they are? It is easy to identify a physical abuser. It’s easy to characature a nasty guy in a movie, Narcissists camouflage themselves in broad day light. Are each of these categories of abuser equally as bad as each other? Also technique that has worked for me when minimising contact with parents. Get a second phone, give new number only to all business/ work and important contacts. Switch off voice mail on traditional number, force everyone to send text messages, Try it for one week, you will notice the difference. Thanks again